Well, if you follow the bible, sometimes you have to:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
Joe Grundy
JoinedPosts by Joe Grundy
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26
Would a Father really destroy His children for disobeying and arrogance?
by Judas I. ineven go so far as to torment them forever?
how could that ever be justified?.
would that be also admitting failure as a father by resorting to that?.
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Bethel Downsizing - Management Discussions
by core in.
the spin on downsizing is apparently "go out into the field" yet when the gb initially considered this it must have been presented as a practical problem - too much surplus hr capacity/ too expensive to maintain - or whatever and yet they turned it into a positive matter by stressing the return to the field - all those in such discussions are clearly able to deceive themselves as much as they try and deceive the "flock" - what do you think - did a discussion on a practical problem have to have a positive outcome and how did they twist their minds so as to sell it as such - for years they begged people to stay in bethel service (make it your home for life) and now they cast them out into the world with the thin veneer of "speedin g up the preaching work .. etc".
all those at the top must have been involved in turning this huge embarrasment (jehovah will provide etc) into a positive spin - they should try out for a marketing award "downsizing - the only way to grow!
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Joe Grundy
Thanks for that, W-A-C.
So it may be that they're downsizing, consolidating and preparing to liquidate some assets. It has seemed a bit crazy to me why they have their HQ in an area where real estate prices are so high. If I was one of their financial gurus I'd be advising them to liquidate their assets in the US (and UK and other countries) and move it offshore. Especially as their growth base now seems to be in developing countries, I'd probably also move the domicile of the WTBTS corporations to where it was outside the reach of US or EU courts.
I realise, of course, that for all its alleged internationalism, JWs is still very much a US-based religion.
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JWs can quote you the bible back to front.
by Spectrum init was my mother that gave me the idea for this thread.
i said to her, "jws think that they are the only christians that study the bible and behave like they have a monopoly on its understanding.
she replied, "they are the only ones with a bible in their house, the only ones that bother to actually read the bible.
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Joe Grundy
"Can people deep in cognitive dissonance even HEAR themselves?"
This is an interesting point, and to continue the crims -v- JWs analogy (I know more about crims than I do about JWs), good conmen (almost) have to believe in their scam so that they can be convincing to their victims. Some of the most interesting offenders I dealt with were corrupt politicians. They had an amazing level of self-belief (and denial), even when the corruption was readily apparent.
And to continue the analogy - amongst conmen the mantra is 'Con your family and friends first, because they're the easiest'. Interestingly, we had a few casrs where conmen had inveigled their way into a church congregation and conned other members. The victims were extra-susceptible because they couldn't believe that a 'True Believer' would be dishonest. Reality came hard.
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Bethel Downsizing - Management Discussions
by core in.
the spin on downsizing is apparently "go out into the field" yet when the gb initially considered this it must have been presented as a practical problem - too much surplus hr capacity/ too expensive to maintain - or whatever and yet they turned it into a positive matter by stressing the return to the field - all those in such discussions are clearly able to deceive themselves as much as they try and deceive the "flock" - what do you think - did a discussion on a practical problem have to have a positive outcome and how did they twist their minds so as to sell it as such - for years they begged people to stay in bethel service (make it your home for life) and now they cast them out into the world with the thin veneer of "speedin g up the preaching work .. etc".
all those at the top must have been involved in turning this huge embarrasment (jehovah will provide etc) into a positive spin - they should try out for a marketing award "downsizing - the only way to grow!
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Joe Grundy
I still don't understand (and I'm trying, really I am) - if WTBTS are cutting the number of staff at HQ Brooklyn, why are they building the new buidings at 85 Jay? As far as I understand it (though I may be wrong) they've got building permission on the basis that these are to be staff quarters.
Anyone got any ideas?
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JWs can quote you the bible back to front.
by Spectrum init was my mother that gave me the idea for this thread.
i said to her, "jws think that they are the only christians that study the bible and behave like they have a monopoly on its understanding.
she replied, "they are the only ones with a bible in their house, the only ones that bother to actually read the bible.
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Joe Grundy
Auld Soul,
I suppose we had it easier dealing with crims than one would with JWs (now there's a thought!).
1. The crims did not usually have the option to leave
2. The tape recorder was running.
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"Privileges"
by Joe Grundy inyet another question (two actually), i'm afraid (but i am learning from all this, honestly!)..
i've seen the term 'privileges' on here many times, and i think i now understand that it means 'being allowed to carry out tasks in the congregation' - which includes walking round with the microphone, operating the pa system, etc.
in the services.
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Joe Grundy
Thanks for the information. I hope I won't offend anyone if I say it all seems a bit pathetic. It reminds me of when I was a small boy and we were forever forming 'clubs' - which did nothing else other than draw up membership cards and allocate 'ranks' and titles.
Is one of the reasons they use microphones (the hall I was in was fairly small and didn't really need them) so that they can choose who gets to speak? (The sessions I went to were made a lot worse, BTW, because it was so obvious that a lot of the people attending had very poor command of English).
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JWs can quote you the bible back to front.
by Spectrum init was my mother that gave me the idea for this thread.
i said to her, "jws think that they are the only christians that study the bible and behave like they have a monopoly on its understanding.
she replied, "they are the only ones with a bible in their house, the only ones that bother to actually read the bible.
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Joe Grundy
I was OIC a police Fraud Squad for about 10 years. One of the techniques we used when interviewing people was to 'play dumb' and ask several times for simplified explanations. It usually became readily apparent when people couldn't explain that i) they didn't understand it themselves; ii) they were inconsistent because they were telling lies or making it up as they went along. (Oh, the fun we had!)
It seems to me that this technique could usefully be applied to JWs.
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JWs can quote you the bible back to front.
by Spectrum init was my mother that gave me the idea for this thread.
i said to her, "jws think that they are the only christians that study the bible and behave like they have a monopoly on its understanding.
she replied, "they are the only ones with a bible in their house, the only ones that bother to actually read the bible.
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Joe Grundy
This is true in all areas of life: Learning a few quotations is easy. What counts is being able to understand, explain and apply the context.
I was brought up as a small child in (non-exclusive) Plymouth Brethren. No doubt in my mind that a PB could give a JW a good contest on bible knowledge (for those who enjoy that sort of thing).
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"Privileges"
by Joe Grundy inyet another question (two actually), i'm afraid (but i am learning from all this, honestly!)..
i've seen the term 'privileges' on here many times, and i think i now understand that it means 'being allowed to carry out tasks in the congregation' - which includes walking round with the microphone, operating the pa system, etc.
in the services.
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Joe Grundy
Yet another question (two actually), I'm afraid (but I am learning from all this, honestly!).
I've seen the term 'privileges' on here many times, and I think I now understand that it means 'being allowed to carry out tasks in the congregation' - which includes walking round with the microphone, operating the PA system, etc. in the services. Presumably it also includes tasks like opening up the hall, arranging chairs etc.
First question: am I correct in understanding that there is no financial or other incentive in this other than a) such service may increase the odds of surviving the JW armageddon, and b) it gives the person some sort of status among the congregation?
I've also seen on here references to 'being allowed to comment'. I've only attended two JW services and one memorial thingy (quite enough, thanks) but at the two ordinary services they had the sermon thing and then their study. It didn't seem much of a study to me, because it was only reading the magazine out loud and answering the provided questions with what were plainly the expected answers. At one point I did want to point out something where I was aware of a contradictary quote from another part of the bible. Unfortunately I was distracted - my friends child and I were fighting off the boredom by drawing pictures of animals and sharing my polo mints.
My second question is: if I as a visitor had raised a question (based on the topic) what would have happened? Are only JWs allowed to 'comment'?
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Are JWs Discouraged From Seeing The Da Vinci Code?
by Seeker4 inin another post on the da vince code, it starts by saying that the wts doesn't want the witnesses to see that movie.
does anyone know if this is true?
where has it been stated?
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Joe Grundy
On the subject of the bible canon and the excluded writings (and I suspect that more previously unknown texts will come to light in the future) - one issue that intrigues me is why WTBTS is happy to accept the canon as established by RC authorities. How do they get round this?